HEERA ALAYA

Lorella Zanardo is a consultant, lecturer and activist. Her informative documentary,  Il Corpo Delle Donne [The Body of Women], examines Italian television’s systemic exploitation, objectification, and humiliation of women packaged and sold for consumption by the broader Italian population. With her documentary, Ms Zanardo aims to spread awareness of female body commodification and bring about change in women’s status and rights.

Heera Alaya: Ms Zanardo, thank you for owning your mind and refusing to resign to toxic television. Your documentary, Il Corpo Delle Donne [The Body of Women], is a much-needed wake-up call.

Lorella Zanardo: Thank you. The representation of Italian women is difficult. If you take the northern part of Italy, especially Milan, where I live, women are entrepreneurs, managers, and engineers. It’s awful that media, especially TV, gives an entirely different idea of women—the impression you get from my documentary [women portrayed as sex objects]. I am working very hard to change the situation.

Il Corpo Delle Donne speaks to Italian television’s degrading portrayal of Italian women—as sexual objects who can be repeatedly humiliated. You and I had the good fortune of growing up when media was far different from today’s. However, the younger generation who has grown up bombarded with oppressive media is adversely affected. How can the youth know anything different when they have never experienced anything different?

My work starts with awareness for the younger generation. Many journalists go outside schools and ask young girls what they would like to do when they become adults, and many girls, not all, answer: “I would like to work in TV as a veline” [a showgirl]. And, of course, we adults say: “Oh, how horrible.” But adults, especially adults in Italy, are very hypocritical. We have raised these girls by showing them all these images; in many cases, they do not have other role models. Now, I am travelling around Italy with my documentary, radio program and book, Corpo Della Donne [The Body of Women] and meeting thousands of students between the ages of 14 and 18.

I find the situation divided into two parts—some girls have parents who offer other role models, but the majority get the idea of their future only from TV and media. It’s important to change the representation of women in media; I am sure you know this situation is also in politics now.

Media widely controlled by the Berlusconi family?

Exactly. Today, showgirls are politicians in Italy. When young girls say they want to be showgirls or ministers, girls don’t know that to be a politician, they must have specific criteria and work hard. We have ruined this generation; working for the next generations is urgent. I chose to leave my private job and go to schools in different parts of Italy to show the documentary, explaining that not all parts of the world degrade women.

Certain states within India work similarly, where entertainment often is a prelude to a political career. Actors incapable of fostering emotional acumen to bring about social reform join political parties to serve their greed and pockets. The blurring of lines, where entertainment merges into media, which then flows into politics, is a deception to lure naïve voters. And the majority of people have surrendered to this system.

What you are saying is precisely the current political situation in Italy. Everyone says it’s like this, and they have surrendered.

What prevents you from becoming desensitised to the onslaught of degrading images?

I lived abroad for many years and didn’t get accustomed to these images. On my return visits, when I switched on the TV and saw the broadcast, I telephoned my friends, mother, and relatives: “Listen, these girls [on TV] are exploited; we have to do something.” And they would say: “But Lorella, this is TV; it’s normal.” I got the impression that people in Italy believed TV was supposed to humiliate women and show them as objects. On my return to Italy, I decided to make my documentary.

Watching degrading TV is a little bit like poison—if you take a small dose of poison every day, you don’t realise it, but, in the end, you will die without realising that you poisoned yourself.

Television is poisoning Italians. I want to give the younger generation a different future. It’s vital to work in the right direction so that Italy’s younger generation has the same opportunities as youngsters from other European countries.

Did you receive support from women before, during, and after making your documentary?

It’s interesting you ask. When I asked for help, the two people who answered immediately were, strangely enough, two younger men—Marco Malfi Chindemi and Cesare Chantu, the co-authors of the film. Their [the young men’s] participation is good news because it shows there are some different men who are sensible and sensitive to these issues.

That’s fantastic. We tend to group men in the same category, refusing them the credit they deserve.

Italy is still a very macho-style country, but my two younger friends are different, which I also learned from my tours in Italy. Younger men in Italy are more European and less macho, and the future will be better. I meet hundreds of young boys who say: “Ms Zanardo, you are right about the media situation” (They are not shy about saying this to hundreds of their friends.). On the contrary, if I want to find a male friend who will be courageous enough to say the same thing in front of other men, I will have to make a considerable effort. In Italy, cultured men who are university professors are afraid that if they say something similar, people will say: “Oh, they don’t like women enough.” That’s why the older generations of men don’t care about this issue [degradation of women], whereas the younger men are openly supportive. I trust the younger generation of men.

Were women supportive at a later stage?

I didn’t want to distribute my finished documentary as usual and decided to put it on the Web. I wanted my documentary to reach a larger audience, and the response was unbelievable. We got hundreds of emails from young and older women from all parts of Italy and Europe. It was then that I realised my documentary had arrived at the proper time. Everybody was writing to me: “You are so courageous”, or “I wanted to say the same thing, but I did not have the courage”, or “I thought it was impossible to say anything.” The responses gave me the impression that people believe changing the situation is impossible.

Did you face difficulties in releasing the documentary?

No, because we chose the Web. The men who control media and politics are old, and they thought the Web was not so important.

The Internet is a powerful tool; even the media is turning to the Internet.

Yes, but they don’t realise the importance of the Web. We have reached nearly four million people; it’s enormous, especially since we did not ask any journalists for help. When we reached almost four million people, those on private TV realised we had power, so they interrupted our work. The media has launched a campaign recently, not about our video, but trying to minimise the importance of the video by saying: “TV is using women as objects, but so are magazines. Everybody does it, so why care?” The media is trying to make our efforts less important, but I don’t care and continue to work toward winning.

Does the Internet bring about democracy?

Yes, I think the Internet brings about a lot of democracy because my work would not have been possible without it. On the other hand, we also have to be aware that through the Internet, especially toward young people, many horrible images and representations of women have arrived.

I couldn’t agree more with you; there is a proliferation of dangerous, psychologically sick who operate in anonymity.

Do women start believing they deserve to be treated as second-class citizens as a result of always viewing women portrayed as sex objects in the media?

Yes. University studies say that when women are treated like objects, especially when you are very young and when you see these images on TV, in the end, you become the object.

When I interviewed young showgirls, they seemed liberated and emancipated with their bodies. But I got the impression that they treat their bodies as instruments outside themselves; they don’t speak of their bodies as part of themselves. As part of my film, I interviewed this girl, and she said she had a university degree and worked as a manager, but then she understood “she” [her body] was the most precious object and started to sell it.

When political power is harvested and distributed within a family, does it threaten welfare and democracy?

Of course. The only information people receive is through the channels that the same family controls.

Would it be accurate to say that when a political party controls the media, it enables it to mould the perception of the truth to its advantage—re-election to political power?

Yes, it has happened. Private TV started nearly 30 years ago. And when you see that the same family owns TV, magazines, newspapers, and politics, it’s difficult to get the truth.

I look at foreign newspaper websites to get the correct information. If you aren’t a cultured person or don’t have time, of course, you want to watch TV and the news. But where is the truth? Of course, the news is manipulated because all the power is concentrated in one family.

We had an incredible public TV in Italy called RAI [Radiotelevisione Italiana]. In the 60s, RAI was one of the most influential TV channels in the world. RAI was compared to the BBC in England. And in the 90s, when private TV started to be powerful—because of advertising money—instead of choosing the path of the BBC, RAI decided to imitate private television, which foreign observers didn’t know.

Our situation is appalling because we don’t have an alternative. Even Public TV is as bad as private TV—you see the women treated as objects and humiliated. In Italy, there are two groups—one, the cultured Italians, who are a few million people, who try to choose private or satellite TV or foreign TV, and second, people with low culture, the majority population, who watch TV non-stop. And since we don’t have the truth anymore, these people [subscribing to low culture] think the degradation of women is normal. And when their [low culture subscribers] children are in front of the TV, they get the idea that being treated poorly is good.

Do you face resistance while presenting the degrading situation of women?

Yes. Because the information people get is either manipulated or when not manipulated, they don’t get all the information, so people don’t feel and understand we are in danger. I am saddened that many people like me are working hard to raise awareness, but there is so much resistance.

Some people understand the importance of this battle, but most say: “We aren’t moralistic; we don’t want to be too conservative. These images are an expression of freedom.” They are not an expression of freedom; it’s tough to explain if you have no culture.

I go directly to the students because we received enormous interest from teachers and professors—they want me to visit their schools to discuss this issue of degrading media. We have also started some education programs because schools don’t cover these topics. Moreover, in Italy, where we cannot change TV, it’s essential to give this education immediately so that the new generation isn’t passive in front of these damaging images.

How does the current economic crisis affect the mindset of the average Italian?

With the economic crisis, as in other parts of the world, people are now losing jobs. One out of four young people are jobless (in the South, it’s one out of three). They don’t know where to direct their rage; they often talk and criticise, but nobody acts. Even the opposition party in Italy doesn’t act; they don’t take firm decisions. So, on the one side, they don’t get accurate information, and on the other, people are very passive; they sit for hours, all day long, in front of this sort of TV, with naked girls dancing and stupid jokes. And the cut to school financial support makes it easy to manipulate people.

As I see it, media is not free anymore. Media is paid, bribed, manipulated, pro-men, or/and distorted media. Is there hope for change? If yes, how do you see change coming?

I don’t see anything new arriving soon, but it will be welcome to have web advocates and news aggregators owned by independent people. Of course, you can read newspapers and magazines online by paying, but it’s hard to convince people to pay for information. Perhaps this will be the only solution in the future.

Are the politically powerful and monetarily wealthy media incapable of offering television programs that benefit society, or are they providing base programs to brainwash and control the majority population?

Politically powerful media isn’t capable of offering any better. At the same time, powerful media is cunning enough to know they offer low-culture programs to keep people in a very passive situation, making them easier to manipulate.

For instance, when you watch news coverage on TV, the media will cover the terrible earthquake in Aquila for a few seconds but will dedicate five minutes to a new aesthetic plastic surgery to have bigger bosoms.

Do Italians care about the representation of their politicians on the world platform?

Italy doesn’t care about foreign representation. People like myself and others who are working to change the situation, when interviewed by influential world media—BBC, Australian TV, French TV, Austrian TV, Korean TV, and Chinese TV—were attempting to show the positive side of Italy, but Italian politicians don’t care about foreign policy and foreign politics; instead, they centre on Italy’s internal politics. Another negative sign is that international news gets inadequate coverage in Italian newspapers.

Politics and media that offer a narrow worldview would rather the population live isolated from the world.

Yes. For instance, Italy is not a big country like the USA, and we are in Europe—Milan is 200 km from France, Austria is 200 km, Switzerland is 50 km, and Germany is 300 km; we are close to each other, but the situation of the media in different countries is so different.

Take England. You can’t use women’s bodies in advertising unless the product you sell is related to women’s bodies—they can show a female body only if they have to sell bras or pantyhose, not for selling tables, chairs or books. In Italy, advertising can use a woman’s naked body to sell whatever you want.

What shapes the culture of England, which helps maintain a level of integrity in their news?

I would like to know about the same. We [Italy] are close to England but aren’t maintaining integrity. Sometimes, when I meet authors of these horrible cheap TV programs in Italy, they say: “Listen, Zanardo, we have to sell this product. Our objective is profit.” Well, the English people want to sell too. We both have liberal economies; they sell and profit while respecting women in England.

The British deeply respect and pride their laws and constitution. Italian law is excellent; an article says: “Everybody is equal in front of the law, independent of race and sex,” and then continues: “Everybody must be placed in situations where he or she can express their maximum potential.” I was working with some women lawyers and said: “I am not expressing my potential when these humiliating images play all day long.” No young lady in Italy can express her potential by having TV and magazines showing her in a humiliating manner 24 hours a day; it’s something against our Italian law.

Violent attacks on women are increasing—from the armed forces and corporations to the media. What drives this destructive and demoralising behaviour towards women?

The most important reason [for attacks against women] is that we are facing the end of a patriarchal society, and we are seeing men afraid of losing their power. I think our generation and the generation after ours will bring an end to the patriarchal society.

And I say this with all the possible love toward men. Men are frightened because they don’t know what to do in front of women with more power and independence. The only thing we women can do is explain, work, and give instruments to the younger generation to maintain healthy relationships with men.

What is the current situation of the younger generation in Italy?

Right now, the youth are very confused. With our deteriorating political and economic situations, young people are afraid; they feel powerless. My generation has an important duty—we are called to build a bridge upon those ruins we created. It will take ten years, maybe 15 years, to build this bridge, and when it’s ready, the people who are now 15 or 16 years old will take the situation into their hands and decide how they want to build the future.

If a woman is a cornucopia of talent, she’s a threat and quickly labelled difficult. If a woman surrenders her strength—to play the secondary role—she earns the seal of a “good” woman. Why are submissive women preferred in society?

Yes, submissive women are preferred in society, especially nowadays. I have experienced the same problem everywhere I have lived, even abroad. Society isn’t ready to accept this new idea of a capable woman who can care for herself and has power. Sometimes, women choose the easiest path: to appear weaker than they are, but this isn’t a good idea.

Popularity always arrives easily when one chooses a very easy and conforming path.

When you propose a deep change, you usually become an unpopular, and it’s happening with women now. When you read biographies of women and men who have changed society deeply, they have been unpopular for a long time. But we are the path-makers and the change drivers. When we want to change society, we must consider that it will be very solitary, tough to be done alone, and sometimes challenging situations to face. Only then do you see the results; people will come.

In Italy, everybody is with me if I propose an easy solution, but few people are with me if I propose a complex solution. But I don’t have an alternative. If I want to achieve something, I have to be unpopular sometimes.

The current representation of Italian women in the media is far from that of Italian women—intelligent, enterprising, and strong. Travelling through Italy or skimming through a magazine offers a limited view of Italian women, perhaps as an Italian would have of India—palaces, opulence and festivities or one of extreme poverty and rampant violence.

The problem is that the representation of Italian women in the media differs from the women you meet in Italy. A tiny percentage of women are like the ones you see on TV—women into Armani, Versace, and everything based in Milan. So, in reality, only a few women are in these glossy environments.

The rest of the female population is divided into two parts: Southern Italy, which has a lot of economic problems, and it’s hard to find a job; many women are unemployed and dependent on men, thus not free. In Northern Italy—where the unemployment rate is much lower, and women live similar lives to other European cities like London and Paris—are entrepreneurs, doctors, and engineers.

Statistics show that the only difference between Italian women and other European women is that Italian women work two hours more each day because they work outside and inside the home. We live the same lifestyle as other European cities, but compared to them, men in Italy don’t help. We [Italian women] are less aware of our rights because more women in other parts of Europe use their time to emancipate themselves, read and raise their awareness, whereas Italian women use this time to wash garments and clean houses; this is a big problem.

Also, many women do not think TV is important: “I don’t watch TV, and I don’t care what they do. “Well, these women should care. I am trying to convince Italian women to take care of their representation in the media.

Is the humiliation of women by men a projection of the second-class status of women within their families—wives, mothers, sisters and daughters?

Yes, I think so. Sometimes, wives or relatives are treated as wealthy and precious objects.

When I meet these ladies [women whose husbands and sons humiliate other women], they have no perception of dignity or knowledge of the possibility of earning respect.

So equality in marriage and within a family reflects in society?

Of course, equality while respecting diversity—I don’t like when one talks about equality, which means we are equal. And men and women are not the same. So, I want to have equality of rights with diversity.

Does a woman have to stop being feminine to be taken seriously?

As a woman entering a giant multinational corporation, I noticed everybody was different from me—they dressed and behaved like men. I thought it was easier to look like a man, but I didn’t feel like dressing like a man. I don’t judge these women who dress to fit in, as it’s easier to survive in a powerful group.

But now that women’s numbers are growing in organisations and influential positions, they want to express their richness. Now is the time to be courageous and show ourselves as we are. In acting like a man, we lose ourselves—we can only be a bad copy of a man.

Aren’t we unfair to men when we portray them as creatures only lusting after sex and lacking emotional and intellectual needs?

I am meeting many younger men, 16 or 17, who say: “Ms Zanardo, we agree with your documentary; these images insult me.” When I ask why, they tell me these images make people think men want only women who are like objects to have sex. I remember this honest boy who calmly and assertively spoke in front of everybody: “Of course, I think about sex, but I don’t think only about sex. I am fed up with being represented as an animal who only thinks of sex.” Some men are ashamed of being treated like this [creatures lusting after sex], and I think that it’s good news for us. I don’t find men of my generation with this healthy attitude.

Do women enjoy a better status in particular countries?

In a few countries in northern Europe—Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, and Norway—women have acquired so many positions that men feel they need a male minister of equality. When I met the minister, I told him we learned from Norway, where 40 percent of women are involved in significant corporate governance.

What advice would you give to women who surrender to television?

I have two suggestions for women and young girls who watch a lot of TV: first, try to watch less TV and watch it actively so you are aware of when women are treated as objects. Second, try to have a passion in your life. Having a sophisticated passion is not important; it can be simple—reading or swimming.

People who watch a lot of TV do not have a passion for life because when you are passionate, you do not waste time in front of the TV.

What did the process of putting together your film do for you?

Making my documentary has been a great adventure. I am quite tired, but I am more content with myself. Like every woman, I remember looking at myself in the mirror and being sad about seeing the signs of time. However, having worked 400 to 600 hours with these horrible images over the last two years, I like myself more, even by growing older.

Before, my face was only an aesthetic expression; now, my face and body belong more to me. I recognise that the expressions of fatigue are from doing good for the world, and these signs acquire significance.

Learn more about Lorella Zanardo.