HEERA ALAYA

IN CONVERSATION

“In life, we have to focus not only on business
but also on sensitivity.”

PIERRE JULIEN
Baker and Owner, Bella Ciao Boulangerie Utopiste, FR

February 29th, 2024

Heera Alaya: I am hooked on your artisanal bread, especially pompe à l’huile, and this is a big dilemma!

Pierre Julien: [Laughs] Thank you.

The aroma of yeast working its magic seduced me, drawing me into your bakery; however, it wasn’t the irregular baked goods that caught my attention—it was the diversity of people at Bella Ciao.

For me, diversity is a significant point.

There is a sense of wholesomeness that permeates every aspect—the delicious wafting smell, the impactful diverse visuals and the incredible flavour.

This is true.

What inspired you move from journalism to baking?

[Laughter] I was on the other side. My quest for direction in life led me to change professions. After having a child and working in Marseille, life felt monotonous—it was the same routine day in and day out. I questioned what I would say to my child. So, I started contemplating a new path. And bread is full of meaning.

Explain why [bread is full of meaning].

Bread is a staple we all eat—black or white, rich or poor, everybody. Sharing bread often symbolises connection and community; it can truly be the heart of gatherings. Besides, you can earn a living by baking, to have a little money to live. With baking, I can live an honest life and create many things around bread.

At Bella Ciao, we focus on baking quality, authentic bread with a heart. And Bella Ciao is a laboratory for building community. Our unique approach sets us apart—we operate just four days a week, fostering equality among our bakers. There is equality between female and male bakers. The organisation embodies a utopian ideal.

The bread is a good—

Bread serves as a glue that connects all the healthy aspects of our lives.

Yes, yes.

What obstacles did you face while achieving your utopian dream? 

The journey towards realising this utopian vision has not been without its challenges. Collaborating with people can be complex, as everyone brings their own individuality to the table. 

Currently, we are a team of four bakers, five including me. I invited three bakers to join Bella Ciao, a safe environment to create products with good vibrations. However, soon they will leave to pursue their projects.

It is not just working together, but—

Bake in harmony?

Yes, and to spread the state of mind, to make harmony a reality.

Are these bakers’ apprentices?

No, no.  They are all seasoned bakers.  One was an apprentice at Bella Ciao two years ago, another baker was at this bakery three years ago, and the third baker has been here for five years.   Given the available space, I invited these bakers to collaborate on this project. I want to show that we create in harmony, with simplicity and kindness, which is essential for me.

Earlier this morning, I encountered an issue with the oven. In a few weeks, your bakers will be leaving to start their bakeries, and next week, there’s a chance your supplier will delay an order. How do you maintain your composure?

[Laughs] Oh, I panic a lot. But we have experienced a lot, so now we are calmer and know how to manage. Plus, we are dependent on only a few machines.

Bella Ciao represents my entire being. It took a lot of work to transition from journalism to baking. For me, the key is to trust and have confidence in others. I learned this through parenthood—becoming a father comes with uncertainties and no handbook. I need to trust my instincts and act wisely. I apply the same principle in the bakery—I try to be confident in myself and others. And I prioritise staying tranquil.

When did you start Bella Ciao?

Seven years ago.

Is this the only bakery you operate, or do you have additional branches?

Bella Ciao is the sole bakery I run. I thought about opening another branch, but it’s not for me. I don’t have the energy to manage another branch and don’t want to waste money on the business. I don’t know how to be wholly involved everywhere. Bella Ciao is sufficient for me.

How did you come to specialise in artisanal breads?

Each customer is different, and they want a variety of breads. I draw inspiration from my baking school experiences while combining it with what I genuinely enjoy. I had to assess whether my choices made sense and if I could support them. Take the popular Panettone, for instance. Today, if I make Panettone, I will use a lot of yolks; what will I do with the albumen?

Many people want organic Panettone, and they buy egg yolks in bottles, which I don’t want to do. I prefer to collaborate with a poultry farmer located just a few kilometres from Avignon. Also, Panettone contains a lot of butter. There are no cows within a 200-kilometre radius of Avignon. To make Panettone does not make sense. Therefore, making Panettone doesn’t make practical sense. This process of filtering information and making choices guides product selection at Bella Ciao. 

My team and customers preferences also impact the decisions. We decide together, and this process becomes a dialogue.

Do you find yourself improvising with the techniques you learned at baking school in Alpes-de-Haute-Provence?

Yes, we constantly question why we do things a certain way.  For instance, we work with short and tall people and have to think about how best to organise the movement around baking. 

Many bakers begin their workdays around 4:30 am. What time do you start baking?

At Bella Ciao, we start our day at 6:00 am, which is late for bakers. However, this schedule is part of our utopian vision—starting work at a reasonable time is part of life, and it enables us to spend time with our families. Bakers contribute significantly to society and have to sacrifice several aspects of their lives; that is okay—they are earning a very good living.

When work is your sole focus, you are a zombie. Real freedom is choosing a way of living and saying, “I love this job; it is fantastic, but I also want to embrace life beyond work.” This prompted me to reflect on how I could contribute positively to society while maintaining a fulfilling personal life. If you think it through calmly and make compromises, you can come up with a happy recipe.

Do you have a meticulously planned schedule for running your brick-and-mortar bakery and managing bread deliveries? I’ve noticed your staff loading bread onto their bikes.

At Bella Ciao, we are fortunate to have a well-organised team of nine. We can manage with four or five people; however, having a team of nine allows us to operate without stress. Initially, it was just two of us, and we were running everywhere [Laughs].

Do you bake four days a week?

I bake less frequently, as my bakers and team handle the majority of the baking. Over the past two years, I have had plenty of time to enjoy life with my children. I walk my children to school, play sports on Wednesdays, and spend time with them on the weekends. [Laughs] Life is good now.

We share the job, and we do our work with confidence.

As an observer, I have noticed Stephania’s sense of ownership— she serves with a fine balance of pleasantness and professionalism.

I have an intuition about people. When I met and hired Stephania (as well as others at the bakery), it was an intuitive decision—I knew we would match. It is essential that I respect all aspects of their lives and that there is no exploitation. With this positive approach, we never argue; we are in a good mood. Bella Ciao is a cool place!

We can have dreams, but it’s essential to have people aligned with our values to celebrate our creations. Did validation from your consumers come overnight, or did it come gradually?

Changing jobs and life paths requires humility.  I had barely baked and needed to be more confident in myself and others. It was a slow process. I welcomed the first brave people to enter my bakery with a simple, “Thank you,” and an invitation: ”Let’s talk about how we can do things together.” I sought to learn how to build a utopian model with my clients. We worked very hard in the beginning, with a lot of humility.

Is your bakery named after the song Bella Ciao?

Yes, it is. In Italy and Spain, we sing “Bella Ciao” as a symbol of resistance against oppression. Our bakery embodies this spirit of resistance through our commitment to authenticity, simplicity, diversity, and dialogue.

You are saying today’s world is unhealthy, not just in the food we consume, but also in what we intake in every aspect of life. Your bakery, Bella Ciao, represents a commitment to staying true to our humanity, simplicity, authenticity, diversity, and all the elements that nourish our souls.

Yes, it is correct. Along with our souls, society’s soul is as well.

Your thoughtful practices—selling only a couple of slices to older patrons, donating loaves of bread to your suppliers, and adopting a four-day working week—demonstrate an investment in the soul of society.

In life, we have to focus not only on business but also on sensitivity. I do not think like a businessman, so I do things my way.

Learn more about Pierre Julien.

Animal rights campaigner, IN